Talk by Dr Richard Schwartz (IFS) – Is Your Body Warning You?

[Dawn Harvie]

Hi all,
At the beginning of August, I tried to share with you the link to a summit called the Biology of Trauma and most particularly I wanted to highlight a talk by Dr. Richard Schwartz, the founder of Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy, called “Is your body warning you? Pay attention to signs”. Because my post is still “pending moderation” (perhaps because it contained a link to a website), you didn’t receive the link in time for the talk streamed on August 3, 2023, so I’ve tried to summarize/paraphrase the conversation here with a fair amount of detail for those not as familiar with IFS for anyone interested.

Question or comment (Q) (from the moderator, Dr Aimie Apigian)
It seems there’s a part of people that find value in being sick. It doesn’t want to get better. What part might that be and why might we have that part?
Answer (A) (from Dick)
There are a lot of different answers to that. There might be a part that was lacking attention when they were young and they’re using illness to try and get that from the outside world. More often, there’s a polarization, with women in particular, between a massive caretaking part that takes care of everybody else and doesn’t let them take care of themselves and the parts that want to have a life, which are the parts that are using the illness. In the rheumatoid arthritis study we did, as people focused on the pain and got curious about it, they would hear from the parts that hated their caretaking parts and we’re going to cripple them so they couldn’t keep doing it, or we’re just at least trying to get their attention to say “you can’t keep living this way”. And as they worked with that there was time sharing more and people stopped being so dominated by those parts. The other common polarization is with people who have workaholic parts and the parts that want to have a life and are using the symptoms to get them to change.

Q
In essence, it’s really us not being able to listen to our bodies? If you’re not going to listen, I’m going to make you sick.
A
That’s what they say when you get to those parts, “What else was I supposed to do? I don’t want to kill her, I just want to get some attention. I want some changes.”

Q
So where does the idea of protector parts come into this picture?
A
Sometimes it’s a battle between different protector parts (caretaking protector, part that got sick taking care of everybody and feels victimized and wants to have a life) and those parts are protecting some other exile. The good caretaking part might be protecting an exile that worries that if they don’t do that, that no one will like them; it feels on unloved. And the one who wants them to be assertive and have a life is often protecting a part that felt powerless.

Q
That’s got to be exhausting.
A
Yes, if you ask the caretaking part, “What are you afraid will happen, if you don’t do this? The part will often say, “No one will like her, and she will be alone and I can’t allow that to happen.” And then you can ask, “Aren’t you tired?” And it says, “You have no idea how tired I am.” And then you ask the other part and they’re tired of having to fight and cause symptoms.
The more blinded a person is with the protectors, and the more exhausted their body is, the less access they have to Self, an inborn, inherent good leader inside has all these wonderful c-word qualities [compassion, clarity, curiosity, etc.]. When you access Self, you naturally listen to your parts, make compromises and have an inner democracy that is more balanced, and parts don’t need to create symptoms.

Q
Most people don’t even know that they have Self available to them.
A
That’s right. We used to call them personified children. The parts are often quite young, because when you were five, Self wasn’t available to protect you, because you didn’t have the body to protect you. The parts had to come forward and do it, and they think you’re still five and think they still have to protect you. When you ask the part how old it thinks you are and you tell them your age, it’s often a huge relief. They [the part] don’t have to do it all.

Q
Would this be similar to those patients who develop parts that look only to the provider or only to the physician to give them guidance and put everything in regards their illness into the hands of another?
A
Yes, the parts are young and desperate and they know that what they’ve been trying doesn’t work. They know they need some expert or somebody to take care of them. But there’s only so much you can do to help somebody heal when they’re dominated by these parts so it becomes a kind of chronic situation, which creates burnout among physicians too. [Note: I assume they are talking about providers who are not familiar with IFS or the type of work we all do.]

Q
What advice would you have for those professionals as a way to start the conversation with their clients or their patients on parts and what might be happening in the dynamic?
A
First, find the parts of themselves that feel so responsible, that feels like if you can’t do it, there’s something wrong with you [Dick noted that medicine promotes that thinking] and to work with that, so that they don’t feel bad if they can’t take care of these people.
[Dick also noted that he’s worked with a number of physicians who gave up their medical practice and are working with clients and their parts and find that more rewarding than trying to give them medicine and then the client not be compliant or something.]
[Dick talked about finding out why the non-compliant part doesn’t let you take the medication or do the work – see what that’s about and where it’s stuck in the past, etc. People can often be amazed to find a part that’s sabotaging or is afraid to have them get well.]

Q
We get to notice as parts come up and we can work with them.
A
Yes, and the language is very non-shaming and non-pathologizing. You find a part, just focus on that part, for example, the non-compliant impulse. Find it in or around your body, and see if you can get curious about it. Ask the part questions. Don’t think of the answer – just wait and see what comes back to you. People are often amazed at what comes back. The idea is that it’s just a part; it’s not them trying to be resistant or such.

Q
Tell me more about the study that you did with the Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA) patients. What did you notice in terms of changes in their physical health as a result of the work that you were doing with them?
A
It was published in the Journal of Rheumatology [in 2013]. There were 39 moderate to severe RA patients who got IFS for 9 months and 40 RA patients that were in an educational control group. At the end, and at follow up, there was a very big change. Some of the RA patients went into total remission.

Q
With that study published in a prestigious journal, why is your work not yet in the conventional medical system?
A
I come from a very medical family, my father was a big medical researcher and three of my brothers too, and I’ve been oriented in that direction, but I’ve really had trouble getting a lot of traction in the medical field. Nancy Sowell, an IFS therapist, who was involved with that study, is coming out with a book on medical IFS. I’m hoping that has more of an impact.
I tried to battle against traditional psychiatry, and that didn’t work, and it just went grassroots.

Q
Can people want to start doing parts work by themselves or do they need to work with a professional? A
Some people won’t have any trouble and it’ll be very helpful to them. Others will get in a little bit over their head and so they should have some kind of backup, if not a therapist, a person who can help you if you get into some pretty deep water.
For those who want to try it’s pretty simple:
– If you have a chronic symptom, just focus on it and notice where it is most in your body.
– See if you can get curious about it, which can take a while for most people, because they’re often frustrated with it or hate it or feel oppressed by it. You have to get those parts to relax back for a few minutes.
– Then ask a question of the symptom. And don’t think of the answer; just wait and see if something comes back. If nothing comes, that’s fine. I believe that not everything, even these chronic things, are related to parts. For example, I have a predisposition for asthma. And if I’m in a dusty room, I’m going to have an asthma attack. It’s got nothing to do with my parts. But if a part wants to take me out for some reason, it’ll push the asthma button. I don’t I don’t have any asthma attacks anymore, because I work on that. But that’s what I’m talking about. So there might not be an answer. You have to be open to that too.
– More often, people will hear from the part that’s using the symptom. And this gets into tricky territory, because many people worry about being seen as causing their own problems, but that’s not the case, because most of the time, they’re totally unaware of this.
– You ask what the symptom wants you to know. And you’ll hear from the part that’s using it for whatever reason and then you can start a negotiation process a lot of the time.

With the RA patients, we measured things besides their level of pain, because many of them were quite depressed. It wasn’t just about having RA, it was also what you did to yourself around the fact that you had it and how much you let it affect your self-esteem and limit your life. So we were working with those parts as well.

Q
For people who have some type of chronic illness, what’s the big picture view of their parts, the autonomic nervous system, the dysregulation of the system, and chronic illness and their way out?
A
For me, we’re all born with predispositions for some kind of symptom or another many of which are genetic. And our parts know about them or they learn about them. When they can’t get your attention any other way, mine would press the asthma button or the migraine headache button. My migraine headache wasn’t fake. I’m not making it happen. It’s a physiological process, a biological process. But there was a part that set it in motion. Once I found that part and worked with it, it stopped doing that. That’s my take on the intersection that these are real biological processes, but they are affected by parts and what they want us to know or how much they feel respected by us.

Note from me: Nancy Sowell has a recorded online program entitled IFS Treatment for Adults with Medical Problems on the IFS Institute website (for those who have done some training previously) that is really informative. She talks about the ACE study, the Rheumatoid Arthritis study and working with the parts of patients/clients contributing to health problems. I’ve seen some examples of Dick doing this work with individuals and it’s really incredible. It will be really interesting to see Nancy’s book on medical IFS.

[bkennedy]

That is fantastic! Thank you for sharing so many details. Very helpful. Awesome to hear about such great results with RA! I’ve often wondered how much of that could be calmed down with MBS treatment.
Becca

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